NEWS FLASH if you read the article Tirk posted in the round table at all you'd realize these things started LONG before GWB was in office. Matter of fact the Muslims have been trying to kill or convert the world since the birth of their religion. The radical ones have anyway. Religion has long been a motive for War. History shows us any religion can be "fanatical". How about the Spainish Inquisition? the branch Davidians? Most mainstream religous factions look with distaste on such acts. ( beheadings ) it doesn't seem to cause an outcry among Muslims though, they dont seem to condemn their own for terrorist acts. Although we are mostly a Judeo- Christian culture here in the U.S. we would never tolerate a group of so called Christians be-heading Muslims. it doesn't seem to bother them if the shoe is on the other foot however. Know your enemy, It's not about Bush, it's about ALI for them. they are in a holy war, and even if their own people don't agree with it, they won't condemm it either because they know it is in their doctrine. They'd have to de-nounce their beliefs as Muslims to condem their brothers fighting the supposed Jihad. They cant do this, they won't denouce their religion. The extremists are actually doing what they are supposed to. Read some of the Kuran, it is there. Mohammed was a warrior. They actually use the Same old testament we do. They considered King David to be a great warrior also. they honestly think they are doing what is right, thus they have no guilt or fear or reprisal. this is why we need to have no mercy. It's a matter of survival really, not morality. If you're back is agaisnt the wall do you fight or die? your call. I'll fight.
Zargawi isn't a thug to other Muslims and he isn't alone. these people are in a Jihad and the yare trying to get ALL MUSLIMS to follow suit. they come right out and say it, listen to what they say when they execute ANYONE of ANY nationality. The call them infidels. they aren't like Manson or other criminals, they truly are doing this because they think it is their faith to do so, and they are just following the strictest letter of the Muslim law. I know I'm going to be critized heavily for saying this but it's not the people, it's the Muslim religion, it's flawed. I'm looking at this objectively and if you read the Kuran it basically says to kill all infidels, those that won't convert. the "good" muslims just ignore that, or they have more patience in converting us. They know it's in there, ask any honest Muslim. he/she either won't answer or will avoid the question. they point blank advocate death to non -belivers. This is not so strange, some of the writtings in the Old testament condemm non-believes also. Outspoken Muslims are quick to point out the Old testamnet practice of stoning any blasphemer in Old testament Jewish times. Muslims are practising a "biblical" era religion in modern times and it's not a good fit. Just my 2 cents.
Ok one more then I'll get down off my soap box. Lately, I've heard the media using the term "innocent Muslims". I like that term "innocent Muslims". No doubt there are many "good" Muslims the world over. Many are peaceful members of our society, yet none denounce what their brothers in Mohommad do in the name of ALI. Why? I've worked with a few of them out of New Orleans on Oil and gas projects, Phillipinos and Malasians mostly and one Arabian. So I decided to look up a few of their beliefs in their book the Kuran ( Quran ? ) I did not read it in it's entirety, a little bit of this book goes a long way ( IMO ) This was right about the time of 9/11 and our invasion of Afgan. prior to Iraq. Now, being the curiuos fellow that I am I had to ask them a question. Why don't your leaders come out and denounce and fight with full force to stop these terrorist's activities within each country. they had no good answer, they basically dodged the question. I asked them if the Kuran condoned Murder. they adamantly said NO. BUT they also empatically insisted that all none Muslims were indeed considered Infidels and doomed anyway. UNLESS they convert. Now I asked if it was true they followed the Judeo- Christian Old Testament? with some reluctance they agreed that it was indeed the same book but was NOT Judeo-Christian, it was Mohammad's forefather's.... specifically Abraham. Now I asked if what I read in the Kuran, written by Mohammed the profit, in relation to Infidels what is the stance Muslims should take. OH the looks I got with this one! ( hey they are in our country, I'm not scared to ask! ) I was asking out of curiosity not harrasment. Bascially, they would not answer this question. The one guy that did attempt to answer it, the Arab, said it is written that all Infidels are doomed. so there you have it. They aren't radical enough to kill Infidels ( that's us ) BUT they don't prosecute their brothers that do basically because we aren't worth saving while they are. They know murder is wrong but they are in a Moral vs Spiritual dilema. They aren't quite ready to murder for ALI, yet they KNOW what the Kuran says so they can't Persecute their Muslim brothers for doing what it says. Realize that Mohammed their Profit was a Warrior. If you took a cross sectional percentage of the Muslim religion and categorized what we considered " radical" it would be a much larger percentage than if we did the same with Christians. Again, this is from our point of view. These people are Passionate and serious about their religion. I have to admire them for that. At least they aren't fence stradlers. I just don't think I could align myself with a Religous group that represses freedom of thinking, espouses the abuse of women, and condoned murder. I also realize this has and can happen with any religous group, but throughout History, the Muslims seemed to have a big corner on the market. I do not consider myself a Muslim "hater". I do not wish to see the whole religion disappear. Rather I'd like to see it come more in line with Modern times and exist peacefully amongst other religions the world over. Although I would not exactly spend a long time mourning for them either, they sure wouldn't for us. We have a good bit of "hate" being spewed forth to Muslims right here in America, courtesy of Louis Faraquan. He is basically using the Muslim religion as a vehicle to promote racism. I may be wrong but it APPEARS from the outside that the Muslim religion as a whole lends it self to a central despot and repress' freedom of the individual. A perfect scenario for the despot rulers of the middle east. just my .02 thanks for reading.
i agree. although i do not approve of using the word "profit" instead of "prophet", and also i would go much further and denounce all religions. but that is a good start. dont forget christians believe the infidels are doomed to hell also.
sorry for the miss spelling, more of a typo. Christians do not give up hope on infidels though martin. Christians are taught that God does not wish any to perish and that salvation is open to all that will recieve it. Thus we do not condone murder, there is always hope. I know this is lost on you but i say this so you'll understand there is a great chasm of difference between the two doctrines. I know you don't understand this but trust me they are like night and day.
there are christians in ireland and bosnia who will disagree with you, and be more than happy to kill for religion. i guess you will say they arent real christians. and that is the same thing the muslim apologists will say. i know you people have no chance to understand, even the smartest among you are too brainwashed. well, i want salvation, may i have it please? oh i have to believe a bucketload of lies to get it? well how convenient. i have to believe it or go to hell? no wonder cowards force themselves to believe. god clearly wants people to go to hell. have you forgotten, the guy is omnipotent, so everything that happens is his will. oh yeah that dosent make any sense? curious how made up stuff works.
not saying these folks in ireland aren't Christians, I will say however that they aren't following the Christian Doctrine. they seem to have perverted the teachings much in the same manor that Christ told the Pharisees they had perverted the law of Moses for self righteous personal gain. Doctrine is "how" you interpet the scriptures. I just happen to think I'm right on doctrine. Indeed if you can prove me wrong please feel free to quote chptr and verse. and yes you may have salvation. and no you don't have to believe a bucket load of lies. you just have to trust that Jesus died and took on your sins instead of you. Many people in the bible were un-belivers such as yourself martin and they were able to change, all it takes is a realization. I know you don't have this but I hope pray one day you will. to a faithful person Martin it makes perfect sense. Ordinarily martin I would admire your stance and respect the fact that you are indeed truthful about how you feel. I would but I can't all I can do is pray for you. To me you're an intelligent yet lost soul. No matter how you argue your point and insist you are more rational, in the end you're still lost, while I on the other hand am not. This is good for me and bad for you. I somehow feel I have failed to point out the truth to you. I have faith that God will eventually make himself known to you. You don't believe, you're like thomas when he saw Jesus after the third day. He would not believe it was Jesus, he say Jesus die. He had to feel the holes in his hands and side. see below. John 20 24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." 26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." 30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may[1] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. Good Luck Martin, you have a tough road but i wish you well.
