flabengal: If a jury heard a case of a dozen people swearing that some person levitated and all this other nonsense... how do you think they would respond? Most likely they would think it was nonsense. Jurors are just people pulled from the citizens of the US. Start a poll asking who would believe the story told by these dozen people. My guess is that the vast majority of the people wouldn't believe it. Even if they saw the dozen people undergo a trial where they saw the dozen people with their own eyes, believed they were being sincere, where their attorney made great arguments why they should be believed, and the opposing attorney made no arguements/cross-examination/evidence casting doubt on their claims... the vast majority of jurors would still think it was nonsense. Wouldn't you agree with that?
I realize the scenario is totally hypothetical, with the psychiatrist getting fired and losing his credentials, etc. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just curious. I think the guy would win acutally. Assuming he's got a clean record regarding hoaxes or mental illness. It's just an example I thought was interesting. I could very well totally be wrong. Maybe the jury would find for the university but I think they are forced to decide according to the evidence, not their own preconceived notions regarding possession, etc.
Yes, the jury comes to a conclusion based on the evidence they see presented at the trial. Like I said, if you were part of a jury where you heard the evidence of 10 or so people testifying that they all saw some guy levitate, and all 10 or so of them seemed 100% sincere to you, the attorneys showed you all this other evidence supporting their credibility... would you believe them? I doubt many people would. It's just hard for anybody to believe that somebody levitated unless they saw it with their own eyes.
JohnLSU: Well, as far as personally believing, I don't know...but you would have to find in favor of the psychiatrist if I understand your post correctly. How could you rule otherwise? Because you don't personally believe in possession? I don't think that would be allowed, would it? The evidence (according the hypothetical situation) was supporting the psychiatrist's claims. Nobody who witnessed the event testified otherwise. The pyschiatrist is found to be sane and has no record of hoaxes, etc. The girl testifies she took place in satanic rituals in the past and approached a priest to be exorcised. They all say she levitated for 30 minutes, spoke ancient aramaic and blasphemed, spoke accurately of events of which she could not possibly have any knowledge. I mean, damn, man....the jury is not allowed to just say no and go home, are they?
Yeah, they are. Remember the OJ trial? That's the whole point of having a jury. The jury decides the case based on the evidence presented to them (with the attorneys for each side casting doubt on the other side's evidence as best as they can). If the jury doesn't believe the evidence, then they don't believe the evidence. Yeah, if you were on the jury, you could tell the other jurors "but they were so sincere, how could you people not believe them?? The guy is an MD psychiatrist. The girl is an admitted Satanist, etc." But I still doubt you'd convince many of your fellow jurors to believe that a person actually levitated. Like I said, that's hard for anybody to believe unless they saw it with their own eyes.
Well, first of all the OJ decision was not a reasonable decision. It was a joke. A blind man could have seen that he killed those two people..... But again, I haven't got the first clue. I thought the jury was supposed to operate a little differently than that but hey, you could be right. That's why I was curious to get an attorney's take on the thing and then just let it go.
I'm almost positive if the jury comes to a completely illogical decision based on the evidence, then you can appeal it and ask the appellate court for a retrial. But do you think the judges on the appellate court would do that? I think the vast majority of people, including the judges, jurors, etc would think one would have to be crazy to believe someone levitated, right? But, if you doubt that, then ask around. Ask the people you know if they would believe 10 people saying they saw someone levitate. Start a poll on here asking if they would believe 10 people saying they saw someone levitate. The answer you will find, is that the vast majority will not believe a person levitated. If you don't believe that, then go ask around or start a poll and see for yourself.
I just don't know if your poll suggestion is going to accurately recreate the likely verdict in a courtroom. I am aware that the majority of people would dismiss such claims on its face. i am more interested in whether they would be able to remain obstinate in a courtroom where evidence and rules should apply. Polls would be more of a reflection of emotional and illogical decisions than the decisions in a courtroom. I would hope that the legal system is able to sift through some of the natural impediments to good judgement and improve on simple polling.
Yes, when jury seeing the 10 people with their own eyes, listens to them in court, hear other people talk about what honest, sane, sincere people they are, sure they will want to believe them. But then the other side will cast doubt on their claims via cross examination and via their own evidence. In the end, what it will come down to it is that it is impossible to believe that someone levitated unless you see it with your own eyes. Do you really think anybody believes someone someone levitated? You don't believe that someone levitated, do you? I don't think you do. If you do, then I'd say the reason that no reasonable person would believe someone levitated is because it has never happened before in human history. That would be like 10 people swearing they saw some guy flying around in the sky like Superman. Nobody would ever believe that, no matter how sincere the witnesses swearing that they saw it were in court.
