So, most of you already know about James Cameron's claims about finding the final resting place of Jesus and family. The evidence will be presented, so I am withholding my opinion on this, but I do have a question. If it can be proven conclusively that this was Jesus Christ, and that he had married Mary Madgeline and had a son after all - does this change the core religious dogma being taught by the major Christian religions? Or rather, is religious doctrine so entrenched into the believers that no evidence presented will ever change the nature of Christian beliefs? Interesting implications. If they can prove that Jesus never resurrected, was married, and had children; then basically one of the solid core beliefs of the church will be proven to be absolutely incorrect. That's huge and could be considered one of the most significant discoveries of all time. Also, via DNA testing they may even be able to identify the descendants of Jesus. I soooo hope it's Martin.
I wonder how they could conclusively prove it is Jesus' remains and how that would prove he wasn't resurected.
First, any evidence would have to pass the test of authenticity. If it is a forgery, then it will be exposed quickly enough. Then it would have to pass the dating tests. If it is newer or older than a certain few decades, then it cannot be the holy relic claimed. If it is found to be an authentic artifact and have come from the right place in the right time, then it still must be proven to have association with Jesus. of course, no absolute test for Jesusness exists. For the sake of argument, assume such a test existed and that it proved the remains were of Mr. J. Christ, his wife and the kids. Then what? 1. The owner of the property would become fabulously wealthy (enough to make you suspect fakery right off the bat). 2. The texts named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have got the story wrong. (Possibly just uncomplete, but more likely enhanced by later editors with an agenda) 3. Christians will inform us that this changes nothing and that questioners just don't understand the Holy Spirit. (true enough) 4. Genetic descendents of Jesus will be middle eastern Semites and more likely to be sephardic jews and palestinians than any European ethnicity. (None of the presidential candidates will be found to be ethnically Jesuit)
I think it's pretty incredible. If it is the tomb of Christ and His family, the Gospels must inaccurately portray Him as poor. The tomb bears the marks of a middle income family, something a poor family of carpenters could never afford. Perhaps even more incredible, Christ and His family must have relocated from Galilee to Judea, taking Joseph and other family members who predeceased Christ with them so they could all be buried in the same tomb in Jerusalem. Or, the Gospels must inaccurately portray Christ as a Galilean. More incredible still, Christ's family members must have gotten over the fact that He was crucified, and hence, impure from a Jewish perspective. Remember, one of the reasons the Gospels portray Christ as being buried in a new tomb that no one else had been buried in was because a crucified man -- someone who was accursed -- would have defiled the grave of the other decedents. Even more incredible, Christ must have changed His name from Jesus to Hunan because it appears that the name on the ossuary reflects the latter rather than the former according to a few credible historians. And the most incredible of all is that this box has been sitting around for 30 years since being discovered. Simcha Jacobovici is a con-man. His claims will be easily de-bunked and he will be exposed as a fraud again.
I was waiting for you to reply! Arguably our Biblical historian, so I can take your posts at face value. This "find" seems awfully tremendous to have just happened with the producer of movies.
Personally its one of those things where I will need to see what evidence he will present before I judge further. Can't wait to see the show though...
OK I will tell you a funny story about what happen to me the day they announced this! I had to go to City Hall to drop off some paperwork. As I am walking up I see three news vans, with camerma men following little blonde women with microphones around. KNOWING that there is no way these people want anything from me I continue to walk right by them to get into City Hall. Next thing I know this one blonde come barrelling at me with her microphone up and the camera man running behind her! I can't IMAGINE what this woman wants with me and the LAST thing I want in the world is to be on TV. She runs up and spouts out "Are you Catholic?" I scream "NO!!!" and run into the city hall! Well I am Catholic and 32 years of being Catholic and 15 seconds later that infamous Catholic "guilt" lays in and I am mortified that I lied about my religion and all. After I got into City Hall I told the girls that worked there the story and they continued to call me Judas the rest of the time I was there!! My Mom tried to make me feel better lter by telling me that I really didn't denounce God just the religion I believe in!!! LOL!! Don't know if that made me feel any better!!! Just one other thing though in my defense this woman had me so uncomfortable I would have said anything to get me out of there! I mean if she would have run at me that way and asked if I was a woman I would have sid no!!! Might have had a little mroe trouble pulling that on off though!! :hihi: :hihi: Edit: I now know that I am a horrible internet story teller!! I just reread this and it is NOT funny!!! I promise when I tell people in person it is funny!! I think I must be a better people person then I am computer person!!! Please disregard!!:wink:
orlando, i think your story is pretty funny. i would say anything to get away from a looney tunes person like that too! and if it makes you feel any better, i disassociated myself from the church i was raised in years ago!! but not to derail this thread. i am still trying to grasp the whole thing. it all sounds pretty unbelievable to me. and that's all i have to say about that.
I really don't like George Bush, but I still won't watch Michael Moore's Farenfat 911. There is an agenda and no opposing side to the story. As with this coffin, it's probably the same thing. They will reveal "evidence" and no counter-evidence. The Bible talks about this stuff happening in the last days. I could walk into a Mexican cemetary and find several Jesus and Maria graves. Maybe he moved there. He played Baseball, too... And there were no bones in "Jesus" coffin and they had long since been buried elsewhere? There were other Jewish historians like Josephus who recorded what was going on at the time of Jesus. It's well known that He and His family was poor. Besides, history shows us that the people who physically knew Jesus were all slaughtered and tortured for Him. Would they really do that for nothing?
You are dead on. Simcha Jacobovici is the self described archaeologist behind this "discovery" is the same guy who discovered the ossuary that was inscribed "James Son of Joseph, Brother of Jesus." Even though that ossuary was proven to be a forgery he still cites it as evidence in relation to this new tomb. He has a very strong anti-messianic agenda, and will jump at anything that "proves" Christ was not the messiah. There is a reason his work comes out on made for tv documentaries and not in scholarly journals. His work simply will not stand up to peer review.
