-I already apologized about the gay thing. I'm happy as anyone to leave them alone. -there is nothing irrational about religion. I think you need to look up that word as well. Here I did it for you: -there is nothing incoherent or irrational about believing in a Supreme Being. Do you sincerely believe that they great theologians and thinkers throughout the history of man were irrational? Come on, you and I both know that is not true. They may be incorrect, certainly, but not irrational. The Catholic Church has a very well thought-out, reasoned interpretation of mankind's existence. You may disagree but it's certainly rational and coherent. I think your problem is with some of the characters in Christianity's past, like the bad popes or burning witches, or pedophile priests. I agree they are all horrible things but they have no bearing on whether what the church teaches is true or not. My math teacher could be Adolf Hitler for all I care and if he says 2 and 2 is four then I am forced to agree with him.
I like Christianity. I like it because I think it makes the general population more moral & virtuous than they would otherwise be. However, I can determine morals for myself and don't personally need God to tell me what to do in order to know how to act. So, how do you reason that God being real is an absolute truth? Did you not say that? If you do think this, then what I said holds true - martin and others must ultimately learn of this absolute truth.
Also flabengal, you keep using this 2+2 analogy. That is way off. Whether you believe in God or not, it's certainly not a science that can be taught, experimented on and/or proved.
- -My point was only that's not what I meant by absolute truth. Certainly I think everyone will "meet their Maker" after they die. -Yes, I agree they have that effect. However, those rules don't originate from nowhere, "intelligent design" is the source. I'm going to have to lay low for a bit. I've got to research that Pontius Pilate info for Red or he's going to be disappointed.
You missed my point. My point with the 2 plus 2 is only that there is objective truth. I didn't say you can test or experiment on God or prove him directly in a lab. My point is that if there is truth then there is a God.
What? How do you even argue with this? "If there is truth then there is a God." Well then, if there is evil - there is no God. I can make $h^t up to.
Red, this is for you: Non-Christian sources for Jesus If you have any other questions email that guy. I'm sure he can give you more documentation. Actually, if you accept the existence of evil then your pretty much cornered into belief in God as well. Evil cannot exist on it's own. Evil is the absence of good. That means that good also exists and then you are well on your way to a belief in a Supreme Being. The only way a person can coherently argue against the existence of God or a Supreme Being is if you refuse to believe in absolute/objective truth. That we can't really know anything for sure, etc. It's so absurd that most people don't argue that although I've met a few that stick to their guns no matter what. Anyway, CParson I thought you believed in a Supreme Being..? Didn't you say that you were a Deist?
yes, to an extreme degree, no question, yes. if you are a caveman, or some other type of primitive savage, then yes that is true, it would appear that catholicism makes sense. by all means, put the pope in his laughably absurd wizard robes and cap and have him magically bless everyone. return to the "virus of the mind" analogy: you have a meme in your head that you might want to shake. you deal with me like you are amazed that i do not respect the catholic church. havent you met lots of people who think the catholic church is a worthless joke? just like a normal virus, you can strengthen your immunity by being exposed to other ideas and developing resistance to stupid information. you probably caught this information virus from your parents when you were too young to be immune. mine had it too, but they had a very weak strain of it, and i knew people who had other viruses like judaism, and my exposure to them helped me have a little persective on why people believed what they do, and strengthened my immunity to religion. christianity is a highly communicable and contagious thing. it even evolves to better fit the times, and adjusts to maintain its ferocity over time, in the face of evidence that it is stupid. if you are unfortunate enough to be born into an overwhelmingly christian community, you have little chance, you will be infected. same with any other religion of course. you randomly are infected with the mental virus roughly corresponding with the location of your birth. some people grow up and decide to think for themselves, others dont. correct, very intelligent humans designed these rules. unlike evolution. with evolution, there was no designer.
I do believe that there is a Supreme Being, but I'm not convinced of it. I wouldn't say I'm a deist, just that I thought the religion was interesting and I shared some views with it. However, your arguments in favor of their being a God are unconvincing. I do not doubt the bible's historical accuracy about flooding or a guy being crucified because it is irrelevant. Whether that happened or not doesn't prove there is a God - only that the book was written by people. People who have the ability to make stuff up. The basis for religion is what I don't like. The fact that a group of people can come together, write a book which appeals to all level of the human psyche (drama, an eternal life etc.) and then label it divine, suggests to me that it is made up. "If God didn't exist, we would have to invent him." Everything that you belief is based upon this one book. People have often used religion to explain what they couldn't explain through reasoning and science. Through science we have come to learn more and been able to discount many old beliefs like Roman & Greek Gods, Spirits in the forests and a number of other ludicrus superstitions. I think Christianity is just another form of trying to answer the questions that we have been unable to answer as of yet.
damn that cparso dude knows what he is talking about. didnt you mention you are in the college republicans? i was too, briefly. those are some wild ideas you have, that might not find a receptive audience in the chapter of the college republicans, particularly in the deep south. not that i dont like republicans, i do, they are cool. you offer a pretty productive opinion to republicans, i hope you can sway them from the religious right to a more laissez-faire social outlook.
