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Confederate flag/racism issue at LSU persists

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by Carface, Mar 11, 2005.

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Carface What the...?

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From today and yesterday's Reveille:

Letters to the Editor

March 10, 2005

Confederate symbol part of racist past

I was shocked and disgusted by Mary Reynold's letter to the editor yesterday. If you need a hate crime related to the Confederate flag, how about the some 2,500 blacks who were lynched in the South between 1865 and 1965? The Confederate flag is a symbol of a heritage we should all be ashamed of.

It represents a war fought in the name of slavery that wiped out a generation of Southern men and a culture of racism that lasted far beyond the abolition of slavery. Sentimental attachment to the flag as a symbol of the South only signifies how little we've actually progressed.

The First Amendment protects your right to fly the flag. My question is this: Why would you want to?

Charlotte Gulley

Sophomore

English-Secondary Education

The South must move on

What is the point of bringing up this Confederate flag issue every semester? The same thing comes out; one day students defending it, and the next day students arguing against it. It obviously gets no where.

It's sad that many of the students who fly the flag refuse to understand how much it hurts African-American students. But then again, it is just a constant reminder that people don't understand racism. You don’t have to call someone offensive names to be racist.

Flying a flag that supports a group that supported racism is enough to show your support.

You can't fly a flag, say you are proud and respect your ancestors, and then turn around and say that you are completely against racism. How respectful is that to your ancestors? Just to turn your back on them when you get accused of being a racist? I could go on, but it really isn’t worth it.

As an African-American, I grew up in the west coast completely blind of the racism issue, till I moved here. Here is a little news flash: the rest of the United States has moved on quite well, but the South continues to be stubborn.

Mariel Losso

Sophomore

Computer Engineering

Flag represents a backwards South

We all know that once someone or something has been associated with something bad it is hard to disassociate from that reputation. The Confederate flag was a symbol for the fight for Southern life to remain the same. Slavery was a major part of Southern life because the economy depended on it.

Although, most people did not own slaves, they still worked on plantations as overseers and disciplinarians. They also reaped the benefits of a strong economy.

Many of our ancestors fought and died in the Civil War as Confederates. My ancestors were slaves who were forced to fight in a war against those that were fighting for their freedom and to open doors, that seemed permanently shut and locked, for them among other things.

The flag is now used by some to show Southern pride. Pride in what? In academically inadequate schools, high STD rates in the South, poverty, mocked ignorance, etc.

Having school colors on the flag doesn't aid LSU in achieving the image that they are seeking as a flagship University. The Confederate flag will always have negative connotations associated with it because of its beginnings.

Brittany Tillman

Sophomore

International Trade and Finance

Many races fought for Confederacy

The argument that the Confederate Battle flag is a symbol of racism is usually based off the fact that the KKK uses the battle flag as one of its symbols.

This argument fails to mention that the KKK also uses the Christian cross, the Bible and the U.S. flag as symbols, as well during its marches.

Are these symbols also symbols of racism? I think not.

The second argument against the flag is because slavery persisted in the Confederacy. Using this argument, the flags of the United Kingdom, Brazil, Spain and the United States would also be symbols of racism.

Also, if slavery were solely based on race, then why is it that some free blacks in antebellum South owned slaves? Further, this argument is based off the notion that the Confederacy was a racist state.

If is so racist, then why is it that Cherokees, Hispanics and even blacks fought as soldiers in the Confederate Army?

I personally, did not grow up in the south and if anyone should be offended by the flag it should be a “damn-yankee” like me.

Michael C. Schena

Graduate Student

International Relations

American must learn from its mistakes

Attempting to rebut Gena Olson’s Monday column, Matthew Springer grossly distorts Ms. Olson’s main idea that we should discuss all aspects of our history, not just the “great” things.

Springer apparently misunderstood or overlooked this eloquently phrased portion of Olson’s column that drives home her point: “Injustice and ceaseless struggle against it is a basic pattern of history, but [some] would have us believe that America is somehow exempt.”

Some people would rather overlook our nation’s faults historically. In this view, mistakes detract from greatness. This is simply a naive and immature perspective. Greatness is found where strength ends. The greatness of our nation lies not in our battles but in our compassion. We are not great because we won the Second World War. We are great because we relinquished our control of the world and continued to sow the seeds of freedom thereafter. Where our greatness lacks is where we have underhandedly dictated the actions of other nations. The war in Iraq is no different.

Olson wasn’t implying the elections were a mere photo-op as Springer suggests; she was implying that we didn’t go there simply to liberate Iraqis (which is true). She wasn’t saying we are equivalent to Saddam; she was commenting on our cultures eagerness to absorb the “bad apples” sound bite instead of thoroughly and transparently investigating the situation (which was obviously warranted). At any rate, these objections are beside the point.

I say we act with class, kindness, and a bit more maturity. Let’s celebrate our ability to remember the past. Let’s celebrate our successes. Let’s celebrate our humanity. Let’s learn from our mistakes. Let’s make sure our history books discuss the entirety of our history.

Chet Pilley

Sophomore

Philosophy

Flag merely a piece of cloth

I cannot understand why people insist that the Confederate flag means slavery. I think the real issue here is that people can not let go of the hate and animosity.

A flag is a simple piece of fabric with a design laid out on it, you take it in whatever context you may. I only see it as a cloth nothing more and nothing less.

I do not believe anyone can say that it stands for slavery when not one of our fathers, grandfathers, or great grandfathers were slaves. The only thing that I can say the Confederate flag stands for in “our times” is the KKK. They are not for slavery in fact they just want to get rid of African-Americans all together. I do not agree with this because it is wrong morally and ethically.

So it is all a matter of context. I ask everyone, was the man on the street selling LSU colored Confederate flags hurting anyone? Was he selling them to say let’s bring back slavery? Was he selling them to get people angry? Was he selling them just because it is his livelihood? You can not arbitrarily say that it means slavery just because our social class, our race or culture tells us it is so.

Think it out in your mind there are many Confederate flags out there on cars and in front of homes. I do not believe all those people want slavery or intend that to come across. We should not put labels on people saying they are bad based on that fact that they carry a certain colored cloth.

I see no harm intended in all of this nor should anyone else, including Brandon Smith. The Confederate flag is a cloth and it is historical let us not trivialize this into something it is not. Not every soldier that fought under the Confederate flag was a white slave holder. In fact 83 percent of Richmond’s slaves volunteered to fight in the war. The Confederate flag represented more than slavery then and it does now.

Jeremy Sherman

Junior

Landscape Architecture

Southerner’s deserve right to heritage

There is a category of people that after going through a break up, feel the need to erase all evidence of their ex’s existence. Even if they claim to forgive their ex, they still become angry and bitter at the glance of an old photograph of them.

In effort to eradicate the Confederate Flag (purple and gold), Brandon Smith really does seem like this kind of person. Sure, a bad thing happened along time ago that we all wish did not happen. Slavery was a mistake.

The Confederate flag however, is not a sole representation of slavery. Just like any other group, Southerners deserve the right to celebrate their heritage. That flag represents mine as well as many other peoples forefathers. More importantly, it represents our love for the South, not our love for slavery.

I sincerely hope that everybody decides to see that distinction next time they might feel anger towards a Confederate flag, even if it is mixed with school spirit. Please choose not to be like a bitter ex, and move on.

Caleb Aaron McKenzie

Freshman

Accounting
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http://www.lsureveille.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/03/10/4230621bb511a?in_archive=1

Letters to the Editor

March 11, 2005

Confederacy founded on racism

To that legion of letter writers who have come forward to say the Confederate flag has nothing to do with slavery and that slavery tied to white supremacy was incidental to the Confederacy’s existence, I offer this quote from Alexander Stephens: “[The Confederacy’s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the Negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based on this great physical, philosophical and moral truth.”

Who was he? Only the vice president of the Confederacy. He was speaking a few weeks before the bombardment of Fort Sumter. He never recanted his remarks.

So much for the Confederacy not being about slavery or race.

Those who display a flag don’t get to define its meaning. That is done by each of its beholders. If I were to display the Soviet flag and tell you I don’t mean all those Stalinist killings, that I only mean the good things about the Soviet Union (borscht, beating the Nazis, Dr. Zhivago and Shostakovich), you’d laugh ‘til they hear you in Irkutsk. And you’d be right.

Make no mistake. The Confederate flag, even a purple- and-gold one, will be viewed as a racist act. If you display it, you will be viewed as a racist, despite what you think about Robert E. Lee or “Gone With the Wind.” That may not seem fair to you, but it’s how symbols work.

Jeff Smithpeters

Graduate Student

English

Flag symbolizes bad race relations

As I read the paper yesterday and all the letters responding to the issues surrounding a Confederate flag, I felt deep remorse for those writers. Please allow me to apologize on the behalf of my African-American colleagues for being “overly sensitive” about the enslavement of our ancestors in this country for nearly 400 years.

I apologize for our emotions when we see a flag that symbolizes the region that wanted to keep us in shackles for the rest of our lives.

I'm sorry that we offended one of the writers yesterday by celebrating Black History Month when history all year long is devoted to the Caucasian majority.

I'm sorry for your having to label me as an angry, black girl because I speak my mind, and I do it with passion. I'm sorry that because of subtle racism, this school will never be looked at for the great institution it really is.

I am also sorry that we have to use a flag as an excuse to discuss the blatant discrimination at LSU. But I am most sorry for the

people who try to make excuses for why the flag should not offend people when it obviously does. You people are the reason that African-Americans will always be

considered second-class citizens in this country.

I truly am sorry.

Lyeza Ann Wicker

Sophomore

Marketing
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http://www.lsureveille.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/03/11/42319b4b36912?in_archive=1

Carface, Mar 11, 2005

#1
SabanFan The voice of reason

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It's sad that many of the students who fly the flag refuse to understand how much it hurts African-American students.
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You no-a play-a de hip-hop...we no-a fly-a de flag. :hihi:

SabanFan, Mar 11, 2005

#2
martin Banned Forever

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there are a few issues that people will never act like adults about. race is near the top of the list. as soon as it comes up, some people run and cry and get offended, some others pretend they are sensitive and care about the poor offended people. only a tiny minority have anything right.

martin, Mar 11, 2005

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MFn G I M P Founding Member

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I am sick and tired of the whole flag issue because most people are ignorant about it. It's like saying Muslims killed and oppressed innocent people so we should ban the Koran and anything that is used in the Muslim culture. Or that we should ban anything that is included in Christianity because of the Crusades or anything Hindu because they hate Muslims and they both kill each other. Let's take it one step further, let's ban all ethnic groups from public because members from all races have committed race crimes (which is one of the stupidest crimes there is because just because i kill someone and he happens to be black doesn't mean i killed him because he is black).

I think just to offend people I'm going to start wearing a shirt that says "I Hate *insert ethnic,religious,cultural group here*"

MFn G I M P, Mar 11, 2005

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hpmcdaniel Founding Member

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Let's all face it the world is full of ignorant and stupid people. If you do not know what you are talking about, then don’t talk about it. And if you think you know what you are talking about, have the facts to back it up so you don’t look stupid. I am sure that I have done some pretty dumb things in my life. But I really try not to look or sound stupid.

What really bothers me is all of the people that think they are educated and then something stupid comes out of their mouth (or they write a letter) like the flag issue, racism or _________________ (insert what offends you). This is the twenty-first century, I think that it is time that everyone grow up, play nice and get over it. Only when you truly understand what the problems are then can you be truly be “offended”. But, then the reason you get offened is becasue someone is being ignorant or stupid about somehting they do not understand. Geaux figure. :dis:

Heather

:geauxtige

hpmcdaniel, Mar 11, 2005

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NoLimitMD Founding Member

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MFn G I M P said:

I am sick and tired of the whole flag issue because most people are ignorant about it. It's like saying Muslims killed and oppressed innocent people so we should ban the Koran and anything that is used in the Muslim culture. Or that we should ban anything that is included in Christianity because of the Crusades or anything Hindu because they hate Muslims and they both kill each other. Let's take it one step further, let's ban all ethnic groups from public because members from all races have committed race crimes (which is one of the stupidest crimes there is because just because i kill someone and he happens to be black doesn't mean i killed him because he is black).

I think just to offend people I'm going to start wearing a shirt that says "I Hate *insert ethnic,religious,cultural group here*"
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Damn Gimp, I thought you were onto something for a minute. Then you seemed to retract it later in the post! BAN EVERYBODY!

You COULD probably get away with a shirt saying "I HATE HONKIES" or "I HATE CRACKERS" or "DOWN WITH WHITEY" since, well, you know, I guess, that's OK, since you're the oppressive race, and everybody else is downtrodden.

NoLimitMD, Mar 11, 2005

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MFn G I M P Founding Member

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I wonder what people would say if they saw a gimp walking around with a shirt that said "Kill all gimps"

MFn G I M P, Mar 11, 2005

#7
Carface What the...?

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NoLimitMD said:

Damn Gimp, I thought you were onto something for a minute. Then you seemed to retract it later in the post! BAN EVERYBODY!

You COULD probably get away with a shirt saying "I HATE HONKIES" or "I HATE CRACKERS" or "DOWN WITH WHITEY" since, well, you know, I guess, that's OK, since you're the oppressive race, and everybody else is downtrodden.
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Whenever I got my first truck there was a license plate holder I wanted to get that said "I hate everybody equally."

Carface, Mar 12, 2005

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Jean Lafitte The Old Guard

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Black folks don't like it. It offends them. It's not some looney-left reaction, either. There's a historical basis for their emotional response.

Why publicly display something that offends them?

Unless there is a historical context for the CSA flag display, such as at a monument or memorial, we shouldn't want to publicly display the CSA flag.

I'm really sad about this truth. I was raised to have respect for that flag, but the truth is the truth, and the truth is that the flag offends black folks.

Jean Lafitte, Mar 12, 2005

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G_MAN113 Founding Member

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Jean Lafitte said:

I'm really sad about this truth. I was raised to have respect for that flag, but the truth is the truth, and the truth is that the flag offends black folks.
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I agree w/ you most of the time, Jean, but I can't go w/ you on this one.

There is nothing in the Bill of Rights that says "You have the right to not be offended."

Gangsta rap offends me...you think they're going to stop playing gangsta rap if everybody takes down their Confederate flags?

Something offends you? GET OVER IT. It ain't gonna go away just because you don't happen to like it.

G_MAN113, Mar 12, 2005

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