I have never been fully comfortable with the discordance I feel between the exhilaration of freedom from a divine overseer and the stark restraints of a materially determined existence. Being an atheist-materialist has its psychological disadvantages, the most profound of which, of course, is the unshakable realization that personal existence and attendant consciousness both end, thus eliminating the appealing prospect of eternal bliss. But that, unfortunately, is not the entire inventory of materialism's unpleasant cognitive consequences. Begrudgingly, I have to admit that my atheism is inherently pessimistic. Consider, for example, that I believe that nature is all there is, and that supernaturalism is prima facia nonsense that the human mind cannot even seriously conceptualize. Incidental to that belief in the totality of nature is the corollary that all events are necessarily governed by immutable natural laws. But what could that mean in a predictive sense except that every one of my personal thoughts and actions were determined at the moment of the universe's creation, along with every other aspect of nature and history? Because natural law cannot be changed, the more thoroughly and more precisely we measure the variables of this moment's state of being the greater becomes our accuracy in predicting the very next moment. If we knew those values completely, along with the natural rules that govern them, we could predict that next moment with nothing less than perfect accuracy. Philosophers have labeled that realization "determinism," and it's a philosophy from which I've never been able to escape. Although I admit the possibility, I've never been persuaded by any accounts of Schroedinger's cat or any Copenhagen interpretation or any such thesis that the events of nature can be affected by the force of observation or will. So, whereas I relish the independence I feel from some god over my affairs, is it true personal independence when everything I think and do were scripted at the moment of the Big Bang? I've had to be satisfied that it's beyond my mental faculties to predict the future, and thus life still holds surprises. At this point of my understanding it's the best that I can do.
about schroedinger's cat. if you interpret the observation of the cat only as a realization of which of the infinite parallel universe paths you could have taken, then you are not really affecting the outcome of the cat just by observing it. you are only finding out which existence you are in. that makes more sense to me. all outcomes exist, but you are only in one of them. i am guessing if you really care about physics you have read "chaos" by james gleick. if you havent read it, it might change your mind about the universe being a determinate system. even if the universe was a determinate system, and everything that will happen was set in motion long ago, and we could figure it out if we had a perfect record of the current state and perfect understanding of the rules that govern everything, would that make things boring for you? from your perspective nothing has changed. even if the book is already written, you havent read it, so why should you care. anyways, i think most people who think about this crap would be so into quantum physics that they would preach that the universe is inherently unpredictable, like the movement of an electron. rex is in a constant state of transpositional flux.
obfuscate verb 1. To make so confused as to be difficult to perceive or understand. 2. The activity of obscuring people's understanding, leaving them baffled or bewildered. 3. To darken; to obscure, hence, to confuse; to bewilder. "His head, like a smokejack, the funnel unswept, and the ideas whirling round and round about in it, all obfuscated and darkened over with fuliginous matter." --Sterne. From Lynch's "Guide to Grammar and Style" Obfuscation Don't use long words where short ones will do; it makes your writing dense and difficult to understand. Words ending in -ality, -ation, -ize, -ization, -ational, and so forth are often guilty of making sentences more complex than they need to be. Ask yourself if these suffixes can be removed without damaging the sense: if you can use a shorter form, you probably should; if you can take a big scary noun and make it a punchy and powerful verb, you probably should.
Well.... I don't dwell on the question too much because it would be a sure road to depression or even insanity. We'll probably never achieve a perfect understanding of every state and rule of the universe, and we'll certainly not come even close to such in my lifetime, so life will always be a continuum of surprises. I'm definitely happy about that, but I suppose I'm just overgreedily humanistic... I wish us to be total masters of our destiny. About parallel universes... not that I buy the notion, but even if our observations determine which of the pu's we inhabit wouldn't that course also follow natural, unchangeable rules? So, from both a philosophical and scientific perspective I'm still woefully predetermined. I have not read anything by James Gleick, but will do so at your recommendation. I'm sure I can gain some insights there.
when our observations determine which parallel universe we are in, it was totally unpredictable, even if it follows understandable rules. just like the movement of electrons. we can only have an idea of where they might be. the whole basis of quantum mechanics is the opposite of determinism. it is the truly random thing. completely unpredictable, even if you know everything about everything. but like you said, what does it really matter when from our perspective everything is a suprise and either way nothing matters whatsoever in any way at all. none of it really worth putting any thought into from a philosophical perspective. science is interesting in the way chess is interesting, but none of it matters to me.
You lost me at 'I', but i never claimed to be very smart. Ergo, Concordantly, Vis-a-vis your posts remind me a lot of the architect from the matrix.
Just teasing you, Rex. :wink: I actually appreciate a man with a vocabulary. But I enjoy a clear and succinct message, as well. I get amused when I see somebody say: "Being an atheist-materialist has its psychological disadvantages, the most profound of which, of course, is the unshakable realization that personal existence and attendant consciousness both end, thus eliminating the appealing prospect of eternal bliss. But that, unfortunately, is not the entire inventory of materialism's unpleasant cognitive consequences." Instead of: "I realize that death is final. There is no pleasant afterlife for the atheist-materialist, among other psychological disadvantages." . . . and I do have a tendency to be a smart-ass on such occasions. :grin: :wink:
I think slept with some hoe in college and got this. You can go to the student health center and get a shot and clear it right up. Thank the gods for modern medicine.
