I just don't know I tend to refrain from posting over here since I'm not as informed as most of you on political issues but I browse and enjoy learning more when I can. Without Tom and the name-calling back and forth, it's also more tolerable these days to scan threads. An issue such as this forces us all to assess the situation. I agree with those (like Senator Bayh) who claim that Iraq has mass quantities of weapons with intent to use and it is obvious that Saddam has been playing games with us for a very long time. Iraq may not be as big a threat to us as Korea but I do feel that they can become one if not crushed now. As SabanFan mentioned, the people that "need to know" are in a much better situation to consider all risks involved than most of us. On the other hand, our biggest threat to peace may be the perceived arrogance of our country (legit or not) and long-term relationships with other countries. I think W has the right intentions in all of this but diplomacy may not be his best virtue. When I saw him on Letterman before being elected, he basically gave a warning to the world (before 9/11 of course) and sounded like he was scolding a small child. I remember a fear instantly coming over me that WWIII would begin under his administration and this isn't the sort of thing I'd normally worry about. I, like everyone else, just wish we would have more international support. The worse case scenario with either action is difficult to think about. I just feel there's got to be some way we can avoid war but you won't see me protesting. I'll put my faith in our government but it may be time to pray for peace to a higher being.
So, you're saying W fabricated So, you're saying W fabricated the entire mess just to extract revenge for his father? You think the French are right and just and those in power are forcing this war upon the American people for purely selfish reasons? You have the unmitigated audacity to compare Goering, one of the most heinous criminals of all time, to Bush? I don't think there's any hope for you Biggles. Thank God you weren't a German or Polish Jew in the 1930s and 40s. You would have marched to the gas chamber while all the while demeaning FDR and whistling a happy tune as your Nazi escorts smiled sweetly in your direction. SF, I was not trying to say W fabricated the "entire" mess. My point is he has not presented enough evidence to convince me this war is necessary at this time. If the evidence was there then I would support the removal of Saddam. And no I believe the French are selfishly covering their own mistakes/interests. And I was not comparing anyone to Goering. It's a quote.... Lighten up Francis... And to compare Saddam to a fascist that INVADED Poland, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Norway is quite a strech... But then again isn't most of W's arguement...
I think our basic disagreement, Biggles, is that I believe what Colin Powell, Sen. Bayh, W, etc. are saying when they insist the evidence is there. You are much more cynical toward politicians (can't say I blame you there) and want hard evidence. Maybe I'm naive but I don't think everything needs to be paraded out for all to see. It's a matter of faith and trust in the President. I have it. You don't. Who's right? Who knows? Sorry about the Goering matter. I went a little over the top there.
You hit the nail on the head... Funny thing is I really want W (and America) to shine. I just have not seen it since this Iraq push has moved to the forefront. We do have basic ideological differences but I still pray for our troops and our country. These forums are different than speaking directly to someone. My sarcasm does not translate as well as I'd like... While I don't expect we'll agree on most things, you have made me question my position on several fronts (the last being the Bin Ladin forgetting)... And I know my pics are a pain in the @ss, but they're worth a 100 words.....
Apparently we have justified it to our country since the last poll I saw today had 65% of Americans approving of Bushes speech last night and his ultimatum to Saddam. Saddam may or may not have had a connection to 9-11 but if he had no connection why did Mohammed Atta have serveral mettings with an Iraqi intelligence agent prior to flying into the North Tower. You and I may not have been shown the proof that he has WMPs but do you really believe that he doesn't have any? And that he wouldn't give or sell them to anybody who would use them against us. I am as cynical as you are about the motives of politicians I saw the 2000 election as being between two lightweight sons of wealthy and influential politicians. I voted for Bush in part because I feared that Algore would side with the anti-gun zealots who are trying to pass legislation that would take away our constitutional right to own guns. W may have his faults If 9-11 hadn't happened he may have served his term as a mediocre president. I do believe that the events of 9-11 profoundly changed George W Bush and he is now a man on a mission. Prior to 9-11 a pre-emptive war would not have been justified. In the world as it is now we can't afford not to act. If it turns out in the end that Saddam has now Weapons of Mass Destruction (very doubtful) we will have at least have rid the world of a tyrant who is at least as evil as Hitler or Stalin even if his crimes against humanity are not on the same scale as theirs. The only reason Saddams crimes against humanity are not on the scale of Hitler's or Stalin's is because he dosen't have the power of life and death over as many people as they did. If Bush succeeds in his mission of ridding the world of terrorists he will have preformed a great service for not only America but all mankind and he will go down in history as one of the greatest presidents. Like I said before nobody is perfect and he may still be helping his Enron and other corporate buddies to stay out of jail but he way he rose to the occasion following 9-11 has given me an enormous respect for the man he has become.
Good post, BB. About Enron et al. If I was CEO of a major corp and got in trouble and my buddy was President of the Freakin' United States, I'd damn sure expect a little help.
