I am in no way a moral relativist. My only point was that the idea somehow that American foreign policy is anti-semetic or overly influenced by muslim propaganda is incorrect.

As far as the Israeli lobby goes...i'll have to find some articles to back this up but if I can't show that they have more clout in the US than muslims I'll be happy to concede my point, 100% and bow down to the wisdom of spikke.

I think you are confused here. The Israelis are constantly abusing the rights of Palestinians and are still in possession of Jerusalem, which no country on the planet, except us, recognizes as its capital.

Not one country on the planet recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel except the US. Not one. And yet you claim somehow we are bowing down to muslim pressure and influence.

You are obviously incorrect.

I never claimed nor said our foreign policy was anti-Semitic. It may be ludicrous and unhinged, but that doesn’t mean that it is anti-Semitic. Indeed, your addiction to moral relativism must be leading you to jump to idiotic conclusions again.

Nevertheless, the problem with our foreign policy and also with your own perception as well, is you both morally equate Jews with Muslims. However, unlike Muslims, the Jews don’t divide the world between the believers and the unbelievers, aren’t obligated per their religion to subjugate the world via the imposition of Sharia, and aren’t obligated to hate all non-Jews.

Thus, the Jews aren’t pursuing jihad against anyone, while, on the other hand, the Muslims are pursuing jihad against all non-Muslims, except our federal government and you are completely oblivious to that reality because you both idiotically adhere to political correct multiculturalism.

Save the anti-Semitic propaganda…I’ve been reading it since before you were in diapers. However, unlike you I don’t accept anything without critical analysis first.

You not only have been rendered totally blind by political correct multiculturalism, but you obviously have also had your ignorance’s exploited to the hilt thanks to moral relativism, and I see that you obviously are more than a little self-hating as well.

The Jews don’t abuse anyone’s rights much less the so-called Palestinian proxies and no one else holds better title to Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria other than Israel. I know it’s boring, but why don’t you try reading a history book for once instead of swallowing Muslim taqiyya meant to deceive gullible useful idiot kafir infidels?

Like I said in my previous post, the block of Muslim countries (OIC), otherwise known as the Dar al Islam, which wields enormous power and influence in the world, managed to hijack and co-opt the UN since in the 1970s subsequent to the Yom Kippur War and the 1973 Oil Embargo, which was a direct response to the defeat of the Dar al Islam in the 1973 Yom Kippur War.

Around that time also, the ECC, the precursor to the European Union, also threw Israel under the bus and agreed to commit civilizational suicide at the same time by allowing for mass Muslim immigration after being coerced via the oil weapon by the Dar al Islam into accepting the Euro-Arab Dialogue.

Prior to those events, the UN truly was a body dedicated to peace and justice, but since the Dar al Islam hijacked it in the 1970s, the UN has been completely transformed into a weapon of mass destruction used by the Dar al Islam against Israel in a never-ending jihad to delegitimize it, and the fact that you believe that AIPAC is somehow the most powerful lobby in the world along with all the other garbage you have been successfully suckered into swallowing, is a testament to how so very successful the Dar al Islam’s massive propaganda campaign has been. I mean what do you expect it’s 57 Islamic countries against one tiny Jewish country.

Indeed, you are not only completely ignorant of the history of Israel and also with respect to the permanent jihad being waged against Israel by the Dar al Islam and their proxies, the so-called Palestinians, but you are also completely ignorant of the history of the UN and the Euro-Arab Dialogue, which the Dar al Islam successfully leveraged to coerce the delusional Euroloons to throw Israel under the bus and to also accept civilizational suicide via massive Muslim immigration, and the Dar al Islam via a massive anti-Israel propaganda campaign has also successfully exploited your ignorance’s regarding all of those events.

As a matter of fact, it is also the reason that you believe the myth today that Islam is a Religion of Peace™ and that the vast overwhelming majority of Muslims in the world are peaceful and moderate, which is demonstrably false if you just learn to open your eyes.

Nevertheless, UNSCR 480 could never have passed without the hijacking of the UN during the 1970s by the Dar al Islam, which seized being a fair and balanced arbiter of Israel as soon as it became hijacked and was subsequently transformed into a weapon of mass destruction by the Dar al Islam to be employed to delegitimize Israel.

Moreover, no international body has the right or the authority to interfere with the legitimate internal affairs of any sovereign state much less Israel, and especially one as illegitimate and bankrupt as the UN. Thus, UNSCR 480 is another classic example of over reach by a totally illegitimate and bankrupt international body that has been totally corrupted by the Dar al Islam since in the 1970s.

Not to mention also that most intelligent people in the USA advocate that the USA pull out of the UN ASAP, because like me they are fully aware of how the UN became corrupted and destroyed its own legitimacy.

In any event, the reason most countries in the world today are too afraid to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is exactly because of that according to you non-existent Muslim pressure, power, and influence. If the Dar al Islam didn’t wield enormous power and influence in the world today, everyone and their brother would freely recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, but because they fear the consequences of a Muslim backlash, they tow the line or else.

Of course, now that the Euroloons have become so thoroughly infiltrated by Muslims thanks to the Euro-Arab Dialogue, they fear the riots and terrorist attacks that would most certainly ensue inside their own countries if they ever made the mistake of recognizing Jerusalem. Not to mention all the numerous other primarily non-Muslim countries in the world also with significant Muslim populations.

Nevertheless, according to you, the Dar al Islam doesn’t wield any influence. Hell, all of the garbage you swallowed has been a product of Muslim propaganda, yet according to you it is all non-existent. Hell, those stupid articles you earlier said you have to look up are a product of that same propaganda campaign. Yet, you are totally unaware and completely oblivious.

And you obviously have had your ignorance’s more than just a little exploited.

Wow. I think you have me confused with someone else.


spikke:

-I don't equate Jews with Muslims. I am just cognizant of the fact that Jews are more powerful than Muslims. The IDF has whipped the daylights out of the Muslims without exception. Israel also is the only nuclear power in the region. Israel is clearly in a position of military superiority vis a vis the Arabs.

-I also don't adhere to political correctness so save that for someone else.

-Islam has hardly been expanding it's territory. There is no menacing Islamic state seeking expansion. If anything they are desperately trying to maintain the status quo. Two Islamic states have more or less been conquered by the US in the last 10 years. I don't see how this is an example of an expansionist power on the rise.

Please indicate which statement of mine has been politically correct. That would be interesting to see.

Also, in what way am I self-hating. I'm a nationalist. I'm for the US all the way. We should be guarding our self interests, not chipping away at them.

Israelis constantly abuse the Palestinians...

And the Jewish claims on Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria are perfectly absurd. The only reason they got them way because of US/Western/UN support. We handed them a nation, gift wrapped by us at the expense of the existing local population. Then the Israelis won a war of expansion at the expense of their muslim neighbors. And again, their claim to Jerusalem is completely in violation of international law.

That one tiny Jewish country has defeated the Arabs without exception. They have nuclear weapons. The Islamic countries are obviously outmatched.

spikke:

Where have I ever said Islam is a Religion of Peace? Please reference that quote of mine from wherever you found it so I can make a complete retraction. Of course there won't be a need for a retraction because I have never said that. I don't think I've ever even thought that much less typed it out somewhere. Again, I think you have me confused with someone else.

spikke:

Your ignorance of my political beliefs is amazing. Try not to confuse me with someone else in the future. It is annoying.

For the record, I think the Jews are a powerful, formidable bunch of people and I prefer to have them on our side. I sure as hell am not worried about their ability to take care of themselves. I just don't want our soldiers doing their dirty work, that's all. And if we do, we should be compensated for it. But I am no Muslim apologist....I think the Islamic religion is a terrible christian heresy.

Regarding Israeli treatment of Palestinians, how about this:

War crime...and they are still doing it....

But according to you Israel doesn't abuse anyone's rights....

These guys are practically the boy scouts....

Dude, the other side of this conflict will never read, understand or live by the Geneva conventions. It doesn't change the fact that some of Israel's actions may have broken Geneva conventions. However, I for one would never handcuff myself with law if my survival was at stake.

If you walked into my house and entered my daughter's room in the middle of the night, I would shoot you in the face without warning, and then explain my unregistered handgun later.

Bandit88

I completely agree, I'm not saying that abuses don't take place on both sides and with good reason at times.

I'm just saying the abuse does take place and is documented. The abusing party is always the one in the superior position of power. Israel is almost always in a superior position relative to the Palestinians.....that's why the abuse takes place.

If a guy with bombs strapped to him walks into a cafe and kills himself and everyone else in it he was able to abuse the others because he was in a more powerful position relative to the others. But the Israelis are much better armed than the Palestinians in most cases.

So even though Israel is outnumbered 57 Muslim countries to just 1 tiny Jewish country, with most of those countries being much larger and more populous than Israel, you believe Israel is more powerful. Or, in other words, even though the Jews in Israel are out numbered 1.3 billion Muslims to just 6 millions Jews, you still believe Israel is more powerful and therefore holds the upper hand.

How about in the UN that you ignorantly believe somehow is a fair and balanced arbiter of Israel and where Israel is outnumbered by 57 to 1 and where the Muslim countries always make it a point to leverage their power and influence to attempt to delegitimize Israel?

Moreover, if according to you the Muslims have no power and influence, then why is Geert Wilders being put on trial for telling the truth about Islam? In addition, if the Muslims don’t wield any power and influence, then why do the delusional Euroloons always vote lockstep with the Muslim block in the UN on issues concerning Israel? Indeed, why do the Euroloons also provide billions of dollars in Jizya every year to the so-called Palestinians, which are the proxies of the Dar al Islam, like obedient and submissive dhimmis?

Further, the IDF may have whipped the Muslims like a red headed stepchild in 1967 thanks to lots of good luck. However, in the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Israel came within a hare’s breath of losing that war, and if General Alexander Haig had not gone behind the back of Henry Kissinger and re-supplied Israel, the Jews would have been annihilated and the Mediterranean Sea would have been stained red with the blood of Jews.

Indeed, it would have been a second Holocaust of Jews that century. As the Muslims don’t just plan to defeat the Jews, they plan on total annihilation. As Hezbo leader Hassan Nasarallah has said, they wish all the Jews in the world were living in Israel, because it would save the Muslim ummah the trouble of having to round them all up to kill them.

Moreover, the suspicion that Israel is armed with nuclear weapons is what has actually kept the peace in the Middle East for all of these years since that treasonous self-hating turncoat sold out Israel by publicizing it to the world. In any event, had it not become publicly known that Israel is nuclear armed there would have been far more hot jihads against Israel over the years. Indeed, considering Israel’s adversaries, the Dar al Islam and also every devout Muslim that lives in the Dar al Harb, if any country is justified in having nuclear weapons, Israel more than fulfils that justification.

Okay…maybe what I assumed was due to political correct multiculturalism is actually due to just shear ignorance. Maybe I was actually giving you more credit than you really deserved. Okay, maybe I was wrong. And, of course, you demonstrate it below:

I hate to rain on your absurd parade again, but thanks to the infusions of trillions of dollars in oil profits due to a freak accident of nature, the Dar al Islam was able to resume its perpetual jihad to make Islam supreme throughout the world on a much larger basis than previously, per their Koranic mandate. Nevertheless, considering your absurd posts and also your admission that you are not blinded by political correct multiculturalism, the fact that you are completely oblivious to that widespread global jihad is a testament to your ignorance.

In any event, if you remove your blinders and take a good long look around the Dar al Islam, besides just only Israel, every non-Muslim country in the world that shares a border with an Islamic country, with the exception of maybe some of the Islamic states that used to be a part of the Soviet Union where Islam was long suppressed, is also under assault by jihad in places like Kashmir, Jammu, Mumbai, India, Bangladesh, Thailand, the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, East Timor, China, throughout the Middle East and North Africa, Sudan, Eritrea, Somalia, Chad, Kenya, Ethiopia, Mauritania, Nigeria, Uganda, Chechnya, Russia, Kosovo, Bosnia, etc., etc., etc. ad nauseum, and this doesn’t include the stealth jihads that are also taking place for the most part below the radar of most people’s scrutiny throughout Western Europe, Russia, South and Central America, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia.

Thus, since according to you, you are immune to political correct multiculturalism, then that means that your complete and utter obliviousness with respect to the global jihad taking place throughout the world and also right here in America right under your oblivious nose can only then be attributed to shear gross ignorance on a monumental scale. Okay, I can live with that since you insist.

Read your own damn posts! You are addicted to drawing silly and asinine moral equivalences because you are addicted to moral relativism, at the same time you are also addicted to apologizing for and sympathizing with Muslim terrorists at the same time you also vilify and demonize Israel in order to incite hatred and violence towards Jews.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but did you or did you not blame America first and vilify and demonize America for having the audacity to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in direct contravention to UNSCR 480, which was passed in the long Muslim hijacked UN? Only self-hating loons, kooks, and moonbats are addicted to ostracizing and belittling their own countries at the same time they also turn a blind eye to terrorism and also apologize for terrorists, and you are most certainly guilty.

I have nothing against criticism whatsoever as long as it is based on the truth because that sort of criticism is legitimate and legitimate criticism must never ever be silenced. However, the kind of criticism that you are resorting to and engaging in above and also below is nothing more than stupid allegations and absurd accusations made by useful idiot delusional leftists and other assorted nut cases that are then exploited by Muslims in order to vilify and demonize Jews and incite hatred and violence towards them, and that kind of illegitimate criticism, or more accurately hate propaganda, is very powerful and works extremely well, since it absolutely tricked and suckered you into hating Jews. Nevertheless, until you can prove those sorts of allegations are true, I will have to regard you as a gullible anti-Semitic bigot as long as you keep posting that garbage.

In any event, in case you don’t know already, and in all probability you probably don’t since you have already more than demonstrated that you are enormously ignorant, but Israel has the rule of law and takes all accusations of abuse very seriously and investigates every credible allegation, and any person or persons found guilty of committing such crimes in Israel are always prosecuted and punished to the fullest extent, as the self-hating Left dominates Israel’s judiciary and they will always throw the book at any Israeli citizen found guilty of such abuse.

Nevertheless, all I am seeing in your post are anti-Semitic lies, libels, and innuendo meant to vilify and demonize Jews and also to incite hatred and violence towards them. Indeed, any anti-Semitic bigot can post vicious allegations and nasty lies made by politically motivated leftwing organizations masquerading as advocates of human rights that are meant to incite hatred and violence towards Jews. However, until you can prove those vicious allegations and nasty lies that you stupidly posted are true, legitimate, and that they are not meant to incite hatred and violence towards Jews, then as for as I’m concerned, I will have to regard you as a bigoted anti-Semite.

Now, contrast the way Israel handles allegations of abuse by Israeli citizens with the way that the so-called Palestinians and other assorted Muslim countries handle such allegations of abuse against non-Muslim kafir infidels. For instance, the Israeli government will always investigate, prosecute, and punish to the fullest extent of the law any Israeli citizen found guilty of abusing fellow Jewish citizens, Muslim citizens, and also so-called Palestinians because Israel strictly adheres to the rule of law, while, on the other hand, any Muslim that kills innocent Jewish non-combatants in cold blood is always celebrated as a hero by Muslims because they also have the rule of law. However, in the case of Muslims, their rule of law happens to be Islamic Sharia Law, which not only sanctions the killing of Jews and other non-Muslim kafir infidels, but also commands it.

Indeed, in Hamastan and the Palestinian Authority areas, streets, buildings, and auditoriums are named after Muslim martyrs who either blew themselves up to kill as many Jewish civilian non-combatants as possible or otherwise were killed while in the act of committing terrorism against innocent Jewish non-combatants.

In stark contrast to Israel and also the remainder of the West, the Dar al Islam glorifies martyrdom, which, by the way, is also one of the reasons so many Muslims flocked to Iraq during the height of the Iraq insurgency to perform martyrdom operations and die as a martyr. Another reason is all Muslims are inculcated to believe that if they die a martyr for Islam that they will bypass purgatory and go directly to Allah’s version of carnal paradise and forever enjoy the sexual pleasures of 72 wide-eyed houris.

In any event, how many Muslim terrorists have been tried, convicted, and punished for slaughtering innocent Jewish non-combatants by the Palestinian Authority? How about with respect to Hamastan, how many Muslim terrorists are currently locked up in prison for murdering innocent Jewish non-combatants in cold blood? How about the Hezbos, how many Hezbos have been tried and convicted for slaughtering innocent Jews in cold blood? Nevertheless, because your moral compass is broken, you can somehow apologize for Muslim terrorists at the same time you also vilify and demonize Jews in order to incite hatred and violence towards them.

By the way, how many Israeli Jews have strapped on suicide belts, climb inside Buses, Restaurants, Discothèques, Pizza Parlors, Malls etc. packed with so-called Palestinian patrons, and then detonated themselves in order to kill as many innocent so-called Palestinians as possible? The answer is zero. Even though thousands of Jews have become the unwitting victims of Islamic terrorist attacks over the years, you somehow can apologize for of that at the same time that you also incite hatred and violence towards Jews.

Meanwhile, your moral compass has become so corrupted that you somehow can morally equate silly and unproven allegations made by leftwing self-hating useful idiot Muslim sympathizers with the thousands of Islamic terrorist attacks that have claimed the lives of thousands of innocent Jewish victims. Give me a break! You are not only incredibly gullible and ignorant, but you are also exceedingly morally bankrupt as well!

Another thing…the leftwing notion that Israel or anyone else, for that matter, must always use proportionate force only ensures that conflicts will be never ending and will go on and on and last forever. It’s total absurdity and meant to tie Israel’s hands.

The only way to end conflict is for one side to totally obliterate the other and in the process create deterrence, and that is one of the reasons so many people get so frustrated with Israel. Nevertheless, if the Muslims ever get the upper hand, there won’t be even one Jew still alive when they finish the massacre.

Of course, you haven’t actually said it, but the way you apologize and sympathize with Muslims and also Muslim terrorists more than insinuates it. Indeed, you didn’t have to say it since it is more than obvious you believe it. I mean how else could you sympathize with Muslim terrorists at the same time you also incite hatred and violence against Jews like an anti-Semitic bigot?

Let see you not only gullibly believe and accept as truth silly asinine allegations made by useful idiots morons in order to vilify and demonize Israel and incite hatred and violence towards Jews, but you also have been bamboozled into apologizing for and sympathizing with Muslim terrorists and I’m supposed to ignore the fact that you have had your ignorance’s exploited to the hilt. Give me a break!

And, of course, you would believe the anti-Semitic garbage that the neo-cons (read Jews) somehow hijacked Bush’s foreign policy for the benefit of Israel. Figures.

Yeah…you sure could have fooled me!

I follow what happens in Israel pretty closely. However, I’m not aware of any Geneva Conventions that Israel has broken. Nonetheless, I am aware, however, of the thousands of false allegations made by Muslim terrorists and leftwing useful idiots accusing Israel of all sorts of crimes against humanity at the same time that those making the allegations are committing crimes against humanity or otherwise sympathizing with those that do.

Nevertheless, can you even cite a particular instance when Israel unequivocally actually broke a Geneva Convention? Notwithstanding the fact that accusations made by Muslim terrorists bent on the destruction of Israel and the annihilation of Jews hardly count unless proven.

Indeed, a lot of you people are naively accepting politically motivated allegations as being proof, but you need to learn to distinguish between what are allegations and proof, especially when it comes to Israel because the USA is facing the same kinds of false allegations and tactics used by Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Link??? And I’m sorry but asinine allegations are not proof!

Yeah right…you can’t even prove one of your stupid allegations to be true, yet somehow you are addicted to vilifying and demonizing Israel in order to incite hatred and violence towards Jews. Hell…you are so morally blind and confused you don’t even realize what you are doing.

So that justifies a Muslim strapping on a suicide belt and murdering as many innocent Jews as possible? Give me a break! Meanwhile…how many Jews have strapped on suicide belts in order to kill Muslims? And even if the shoe were on the other foot, are you mentally handicapped enough to believe that Jews would be strapping on suicide belts? In any event, if the shoe were on the other foot, the Jews would already be dead.

Nevertheless, if you weren’t so blind and otherwise brain dead, you’d realize that the Jews are our allies because they are fighting the same Muslim adversaries that we are, instead of sympathizing and apologizing for Muslim terrorists. Moreover, just like we do here in the USA, the Jews in Israel adhere to the rule of law. Nevertheless, you can’t help but vilify them for having the audacity to defend themselves.

Indeed, you see the Jews as being the bullies, yet the Jews in Israel only act to defend themselves from Muslim terrorist attacks. You know, besides just Israel, every non-Muslim country in the world today that borders a Muslim country also has bloody borders because of jihad and in every situation, it doesn’t matter where, the Muslims always present themselves as being the victims and only the gullible and naive are ignorant enough to fall for it.

Moreover, not only is the Dar al Islam’s jihad against Israel permanent, but every jihad around the world the Muslims are also pursuing are permanent until the Dar al Islam secures victory or otherwise the Muslim ummah becomes to weak to pursue jihad.

spikke:

I don't know which law they are in violation of exactly but they plainly are building illegal settlements. Why are they allowed to do this, according to you?

spikke:

-I never said it was justified. It was just an example of relative positions of power.

-And you are right, if the shoe was on the other foot the Jews would be dead. Which is proof positive that the shoe is not on the other foot. The Jews are more powerful than the Arabs or the Jews would be gone.

-If the Arabs had nuclear weapons and the Jews did not the Jews would no longer be in Israel.

spikke:

Look man, you are stoned if you think Islam is able to stand toe-to-toe with the West. Most of the countries on that list are incredibly poor. None of them are in a position to invade a neighboring country in a military expansion.

As far as stealth jihads the only people I agree with you on that list are in some trouble is the europeans. They have no one to blame but themselves for their demographic problems. Their birth rate doesn't even reach replacement levels. Whose fault is that? The Muslims? The fault lies with the european secularist mindset that value wealth and comfort over the health of the society as a whole. And they will pay a price for that, no doubt. But they did that to themselves, not the Muslims.