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Waterboarding = Torture ??
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  1. We used to go waterboarding all the time out on False River. I guess it can hurt if you fall wrong but for the most part its a lot of fun. Personally, I don't think the government should be using our tax money to take terrorists out on the river having fun while good citizens are hard at work.
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  2. It surely is in our culture, but that is not always the case elsewhere. Iran had a revolution in 1979 and overthrew their dictator . . . and they replaced him with an even more oppressive religious council. Palestinians got a chance for democratic elections a few years ago and they elected Hamas!

    A lot of the third world is in no ecomonic, educational, or industrial shape to support a Democracy and the people are most comfortable under a strongman--sometimes benevolent, like the King of Saudi Arabia, but often a despot like Saddam or Kim Jung Il.

    We need to rethink the notion that inside of every gook and raghead, there is an American trying to get out.
  3. From the Internet:
    Texas Councilman T. Bubba Bechtel, a part-time City     Councilman from Midland , TX , was asked on a local live radio talk show the other day just what he thought of the allegations of torture of the Iraqi prisoners. His reply prompted his ejection from the studio, but to thunderous applause from the audience: "If hooking up an Iraqi prisoner's balls to a car's battery cables will save one Texas GI's life, then I have just two things to say":



    "Red is positive"

    "Black is negative"
  4. I am not basing my arguments on some "college philosophy book" but on moral principles that has shaped mankind. I think it is in the best interest of the United States to be respected rather than feared. A nation that is respected has a great deal more influence than one that is feared. Historically, feared nations generally do not last very long. And by the way, morals help you a great deal when you are on Iwo Jima. We have rules of war to help us get through Iwo Jimas with our self-respect intact. Like the old saying goes: there are no athiests in a foxhole.
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  5. Here is a project for you Red, you mentioned china building nuclear subs and you are correct. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, even though you don't really want to find out the answer is: Where did they get the technology to build those nuclear subs. You need look no further than one WJC "the cigar master" himself. And that my friend, no matter how much you fight it. Is fact.
  6. Did you sleep your way through American history? How do you think we got where we are today? Believe it or not, our history didn't start 6 years ago.

    Can you give me specific examples on how YOU are less free today? Do you wake up every morning scared to go outside?
  7. All you forgot was to offer some documentation to support your allegation. Otherwise no one will consider it to be "truth". Just a bit of evidence, you know. Amigo, if you leave it up to me to provide the evidence, am I likely to corroborate your statement . . . or to find a way to shoot you down with it? :grin:

    All I find regarding this matter is right-wing websites making unsubstantiated allegations, I find no authoritative sources offering real evidence that WJC himself gave China the technology to build nuclear submarines. There has been a ton of technology transfer between the US and China since Nixon open up trade in the 70's. It is the basis of our economic relationship--we have high technology and they have cheap labor.

    It has gone on under all US presidents since that time. Cases can be made that much of this technology has both civilian and military uses (especially computers) and right-wing bloggers have tried to paint some of this as "giving military secrets" to China.

    In fact, much of the technology that we transfer to China, while effective, is not the latest technology. 1980's and 90's-era computer technology is available from many other sources besides the US, primarily from Russia, France, Britain, India, and Germany. It's good business to get into the market on technology that is an ordinary commodity.

    It has been alleged that the new Chinese missile submarines are comparable in capability, stealth, and propuision to the US Ohio-class SSBN's. But it should be remembered that the Ohio-class subs are 1970's technology and not close to the subs we are capable of making today. Neither are the Chinese subs, although dangerous.

    Where did you get the idea that nuclear submarine technology has much at all to do with Clinton? Chinese submarines are overwhelmingly based on Russian technology. It's not like the Chinese military would be armed with rocks and pointed sticks were it not for Clinton. The Chinese first had missles tipped with nuclear warheads aimed at US cities during the Reagan administration.

    Their problem, is that their giant military is using largely obsolete equipment, is poorly trained, and is having a difficult time maintaining what they have, much less adding innovative weapons in significant numbers.

  8. I agree with you and I don't subscribe to the feeling that in every wacko, goat-eating Arab there's a George Washington.

    And not every country should be a US-like democracy.....we can't go into these counties and force democracy by the force of a tank. But like I said, as opportunities arise that will allow the influence and hint of freedom, the US should help with that. These are long-term goals and successes will be few in the short-term. At times it may seem worthless. But just like with China, long-term plans are more important than short-term goals and obvious successes.

    Iran has a huge young, educated population that at times, clamors for more freedom. Is it freedom like the US, with 3 branches of government and eagle as the national emblem? No, but freedom none the less and I know there are elements of the US government working to foster those feelings....as we should.

    I don't think anyone from the US has ever said these counties have to have a duplicate of the US governmental structure to succeed. But for long-term peace and prosperity for all, freedom and self-governance for all should be our goal.
  9. That in itself gives way to rebellion against the American philosophy where as if you cant have it, join the others that rebel against it, or the mere fact that they simply cannot find the correlation which will bind their Muslim beliefs with the American way of thinking. They see others (Muslims, Dubai for example) try and simply do not approve the video. Straddling the fence can be brutal, ask reb!
  10. :lol: :lol: :lol: rocks and pointed sticks:lol: :lol: :lol:
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