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Obama the Centrist

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by gumborue, Mar 16, 2010.

Page 9 of 11

martin Banned Forever

for the 7th time, it is not required to buy car insurance, i dont have it.

oops you posted that right before me.

martin, Mar 21, 2010

#81
martin Banned Forever

red55 said: ↑

Then you should be turned away at the emergency room after some Buick makes a mess of you on your bicycle unless, of course, you have about $25,000 on you for trauma care.
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i said i shouldnt be required to have health care insurance, i didnt say i dont have it. i said i dont have car insurance. please pay attention.

Taking care of you adds to the costs of all of the rest of us who are insured.

Freeloader.

Thief.
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if i didnt have health insurance i wouldnt ask anyone to pay for my care.

martin, Mar 21, 2010

#82
SabanFan The voice of reason

red55 said: ↑

WTF? :insane:

THE QUESTION was "Where does the Constitution say this". You called it unconstitutional and you can't back it up. Whats the matter? The Constitution ain't that long, you should be able to find it.
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red55 said: ↑

No, are you saying that? Why do you try to put words into my mouth?

What I said was that it is NOT unconstitutional for governments to require insurance and gave an example of it.
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The government does not mandate that you buy auto liability insurance any more than the government makes you get a passport. If you want to travel overseas, you have to have one. If you don't want a passport then you can choose not to travel overseas. If you don't want to buy auto liability insurance then don't buy a car. It's your choice. Under this bill, if you don't want to buy health insurance you cannot say "well, I just won't use doctors and hospitals". You DON'T have a choice.

SabanFan, Mar 21, 2010

#83
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

martin said: ↑

i said i shouldnt be required to have health care insurance, i didnt say i dont have it. i said i dont have car insurance. please pay attention.
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I was referring to the hypothetical "you" of your comment. I can't believe that you did not follow this.

red55, Mar 21, 2010

#84
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

SabanFan said: ↑

The government does not mandate that you buy auto liability insurance any more than the government makes you get a passport. If you want to travel overseas, you have to have one. If you don't want a passport then you can choose not to travel overseas. If you don't want to buy auto liability insurance then don't buy a car. It's your choice. Under this bill, if you don't want to buy health insurance you cannot say "well, I just won't use doctors and hospitals". You DON'T have a choice.
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I understand your position, SF. I was trying to get you to tell me what part of the Constitution has been violated, since you claimed that. And still you don't.

red55, Mar 21, 2010

#85
SabanFan The voice of reason

red55 said: ↑

I understand your position, SF. I was trying to get you to tell me what part of the Constitution has been violated, since you claimed that. And still you don't.
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Section 8, Article 1. but we've already been over that. The US Constitution tells Government what they can do. If it doesn't give them the power they don't have it.

SabanFan, Mar 21, 2010

#86
red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

SabanFan said: ↑

Section 8, Article 1. but we've already been over that. The US Constitution tells Government what they can do. If it doesn't give them the power they don't have it.
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Yes, we've already been over it. Section 8 authorizes Congress to "regulate commerce" and to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper ".

There is nothing in the Constitution about space exploration, air traffic control, social security, or levee building either. Congress makes new laws from time to time. It's their job.

red55, Mar 21, 2010

#87
SabanFan The voice of reason

red55 said: ↑

Yes, we've already been over it. Section 8 authorizes Congress to "regulate commerce" and to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper ".

There is nothing in the Constitution about space exploration, air traffic control, social security, or levee building either. Congress makes new laws from time to time. It's their job.
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You are wrong, but there's no point in arguing with you.

SabanFan, Mar 21, 2010

#88
SabanFan The voice of reason

red55 said: ↑

Yes, we've already been over it. Section 8 authorizes Congress to "regulate commerce" and to "make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper ".

There is nothing in the Constitution about space exploration, air traffic control, social security, or levee building either. Congress makes new laws from time to time. It's their job.
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These are mostly found in Article I, Section 8, which among other things gives Congress the power to tax, borrow and spend money, raise and support armies, declare war, establish post offices and regulate commerce. It is the authority to regulate foreign and interstate commerce that—in one way or another—supports most of the elaborate federal regulatory system. If the federal government has any right to reform, revise or remake the American health-care system, it must be found in this all-important provision. This is especially true of any mandate that every American obtain health-care insurance or face a penalty.
...But Congress cannot so simply avoid the constitutional limits on its power...
...This type of congressional trickery is bad for our democracy and has implications far beyond the health-care debate. The Constitution's Framers divided power between the federal government and states—just as they did among the three federal branches of government—for a reason. They viewed these structural limitations on governmental power as the most reliable means of protecting individual liberty—more important even than the Bill of Rights.
...Since the 1930s, the Supreme Court has been reluctant to invalidate "regulatory" taxes. However, a tax that is so clearly a penalty for failing to comply with requirements otherwise beyond Congress's constitutional power will present the question whether there are any limits on Congress's power to regulate individual Americans. The Supreme Court has never accepted such a proposition, and it is unlikely to accept it now, even in an area as important as health care.
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David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey: Mandatory Insurance Is Unconstitutional - WSJ.com

Although Democrats think their health-care legislation faces smooth sailing to implementation, there is a rock dead ahead -- a constitutional challenge to the legislation's core. Democrats who assume it is constitutional to make it mandatory for Americans to purchase health insurance should answer some questions...
...conservatives favor judicial activism understood as unflinching performance of the courts' role in that protection.

That role includes disapproving congressional encroachments on liberty that are not exercises of enumerated powers. This obligatory engagement with the Constitution's text and logic supersedes any obligation to be deferential toward the actions of government merely because they reflect popular sovereignty.
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George F. Will - That rock in the health-care road? It's called the Constitution. - washingtonpost.com

IS MANDATED HEALTH CARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL?
Yes, according to The Fund for Personal Liberty. The organization is backing a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of mandatory Medicare enrollment, and says it will do the same against a national individual mandate, should such a directive be a result of health care reform legislation.
Any mandate to purchase health insurance is an invalid exercise of the powers granted to Congress by Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution of the United States,” says Kent Masterson Brown, lead counsel for the TFPL, adding that the fund “will promptly challenge the constitutionality of any mandate to purchase health insurance.”
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IS MANDATED HEALTH CARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL? LIFE is Good – Choose LIFE – promotionsforLIFE.com

Want more?:dis:

SabanFan, Mar 21, 2010

#89
TheDude I'm calmer than you.

red55 said: ↑

No, of course not. You never make up stuff . . . :rolleye33:

WTF? :insane:

THE QUESTION was "Where does the Constitution say this". You called it unconstitutional and you can't back it up. Whats the matter? The Constitution ain't that long, you should be able to find it.
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It's really quite simple. It's exactly the opposite of what you say. If it is not specified in the constitution, the rights fall to the states and the individual - not to the fed.

The government envisioned by the Constitution is one of enumerated powers (see Art. I, Sec. 8 and the 10th Amendment). That means that unless the Constitution grants a power to the government, the government does not have that power.
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Your claims get weaker with each passing moment.

TheDude, Mar 21, 2010

#90

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