New Arizona Immigration Enforcement Laws

Discussion in 'Free Speech Alley' started by OkieTigerTK, Apr 23, 2010.

  1. OkieTigerTK

    OkieTigerTK Tornado Alley

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    Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill - Yahoo! News


    im not against tougher laws, and its a shame that they dont come at the national level. but is there enough emphasis on the employers with this bill? from what i can see, it only address "day labor".




    does arizona already have any tough laws to fine employers of illegals in general? an area i think also needs to be addressed at the national level. i think all sides of it need to be toughened. both on the illegals themselves, and those that hire them.
     
  2. TheDude

    TheDude I'm calmer than you.

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    I think the point of the bill is to force the federal hand. Border states are suffering(and benefiting) from illegals and the feds really doesn't do much. With the recent explosion of drug violence, Americans should not be forced to live in fear because their govt is too lazy to act, and too pandering to address it meaningfully.

    States should not be enacting laws that have national implications, but police in border towns should not be forced to jam their thumbs up their butts while citizens are getting murdered on their own property. It's always the high profile cases that become a catalyst.

    If Obama opposes this without a viable alternative, it will damage him. I don't think the Mexican drug lords are going to take the next 2 years off while he runs for re-election.
     
  3. OkieTigerTK

    OkieTigerTK Tornado Alley

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    true. both sides seem to be hesitant to really come up with something. and i believe that is because, as i said, both sides of the illegal coin need to be addressed. both the supply and demand. it seems that partisan bickering gets in the way.

    also agree, but because the feds wont do anything, states are going to have to do something. they cannot just sit by. the money it is costing states and cities to combat the problems being caused is not there, and taking away from other areas that need funding. if nothing, states are going to have to start enacting laws, just to try to control costs, if nothing else. (although the social implications also will have a lot to do with it.)

    also agree. the health care issue is so massive and in many ways confusing, because most dont really know what is in it (hell, those that passed it arent sure what is in it) this is an issue most americans can understand. he cannot just say, "this wont work". that wont fly. he has to say "but we can do this this and this at the national level" and then press congress into acting.
     
  4. Indiana Tiger

    Indiana Tiger Founding Member

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    AZ undoubtedly has a problem here, but any law that can detain a US citizen for failure of carrying his "papers," i.e. a passport or birth certificate, is just plain wrong. How do you look like an illegal alien?
     
  5. LSUsupaFan

    LSUsupaFan Founding Member

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    This is the problem with the law. If you are brown or don't speaky de english you are ion trouble. That isn't how it is supposed to work here.
     
  6. red55

    red55 curmudgeon Staff Member

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    I tend to agree that this is tricky ground, but the US has a illegal alien problem that must be addressed somehow. One solution is to require every citizen to carry a secure national ID. It would not only help us in security situations in airports, but it would prevent illegals from working without one.

    Police need some flexibility and judges should be the arbiters. Police should not be able to stop a Hispanic American on the street and ask him for proof of citizenship. But they should be able to ask for ID when they stop a van full of people who speak no English and have every appearance of being illegal Mexican Nationals. They should be able to go onto a job site full of suspected illegal aliens and demand proof of citizenship from the employers.

    The problems is that legal Hispanic Americans feel a need to support illegal Mexican Nationals. They should decide which country they want to belong to. If they want to be treated like any other American, then they should place America first. I'm proud of my English heritage, but I don't advocate letting English Nationals come here illegally. I'm an American and I know it. Hispanic Americans have to choose to be different or they will continue to be treated like illegal aliens.

    The other problem is political. The republican party fights any attempts to go after the employers who bring these aliens here by providing jobs for them. Put some of these guys in jail and they can stop this. The democrats fight any attempt to deny illegal aliens the privilege to drive, to get medical care, to get housing, or their kids schooled. Deny them these privileges and they will stop bringing their wives and kids here.

    And nobody seems to want to punish lawbreakers. If you or I illegally enter another country we are probably going to jail. if illegals were made to work 6 months in a chain gang cutting weeds along the highway before being deported, they might reconsider coming back
     
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  7. Krypto

    Krypto Huh?

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    well said.
     
  8. OkieTigerTK

    OkieTigerTK Tornado Alley

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    i agree, but say take it a step further. how about this....

    if a mexican national is here legally, and is found to be aiding illegals in being here with things such as crossing the border, housing, employment, financial aid, those legals have their asses deported back to mexico right along with the illegals. if they dont have citizenship and are aiding illegals, f'em.
     
  9. Indiana Tiger

    Indiana Tiger Founding Member

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    Whether paper or plastic, it is just wrong to require US citizens to carry their papers at all times and to surrender them to authorities on any whim. Yes, there are legitimate and justified uses of a national ID card, but before I willingly sign on, I want to see existing protections strengthened by the adoption of a constitutional amendment on the right of privacy.

    The biggest problem with "illegal" aliens is the criminalization of people trying to better themselves. You want to solve the illegal alien problem? Just make immigration easier and the "illegal" aspect of the problem will go away. Overwhelmingly, these people do not commit real criminal acts. AZ has experienced a huge influx of illegals in the last 10 years because other crossing areas have been tightened up. However, AZ's violent crime and over crime rates have decreased faster than the rest of the nation. Common sense should tell you that "illegals" don't commit crimes because they don't want to get caught. If you deport all these people, AZ's crime rate will go up.

    The criminal act here is the entrapment of these "illegals" due to our refusal to close the borders or to prosecute the employers. It would cost billions to build and maintain a 2000 mile Berlin wall, while we ignore our northern border where the real terrorists are most likely to enter. Who knows how much it would cost to identify and deport the ones who get caught on this side. And on top of this it would take a couple of billion or so out of the AZ economy alone that these illegals spend. The point here is that the powers that be don't want to spend or lose the money.

    Free market principles tell you that you have to eliminate the profit from the act if you want to change behavior. If you build the wall, things will get more expensive for the "illegal." They'll still come, but most will have to come by water, so the wall will have limited effectiveness.

    Personally, I think it is a cheap shot to challenge the patriotism of a group choosing blood over an irrational immigration policy. Why not challenge the patriotism of others that are also financing the illegals through hiring? Why not take the businesses away from those who hire illegals? Houses away from those who hire illegal domestic help? At least this would address all illegals and not just those from south of the border. It would take some new tools to verify citizenship at hiring time, but it could be quite effective.

    Unless we are willing to actually do some of these sorts of things, then all we are doing is making a bunch of noise to placate the masses. It would be much better to ease immigration policy and start collecting taxes from these people than declaring them criminals.
     
  10. OkieTigerTK

    OkieTigerTK Tornado Alley

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